ELVIS, EDISON & UBU ROI: AN INTERVIEW WITH DAVID THOMAS

     This is an unpublished interview I did with David Thomas of legendary Cleveland art-rockers Pere Ubu back in October of 2011 before his first-ever concert in the state of Alabama. Having been fortunate enough to bring David to Birmingham to play in the home of my good friends Troy Thompson and Laney DeJonge as part of his Living Room Concert Series, I had set up an interview with a local writer to help cover the event for one of the city papers who unfortunately backed out at the last minute and decided not to do it. Having written my senior thesis on Pere Ubu as an American Studies major in college, I decided I couldn't let this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity fall by the wayside and opted to do the interview myself in hopes of getting it published at a later date. It never happened. So with no place to put it and no working blog at the time, I ended up shelving it as a keepsake. Having recently stumbled across it again after moving out of my old apartment, I decided it was finally time to let it see the light of day after so many months on my hard drive. In spite of the fact that its expiration date has come and gone several times over, I thought it might be an interesting read for anyone who is a fan of David's music or the history of rock & roll in general, as it touches on a wide swath of his career as well as that of many others. Enjoy.

A: This is your first time to ever play in Alabama. Have you ever visited the state before in any capacity?

DT: I'm sure I've passed through somewhere. We used to vacation up in Cloudland, Georgia which is right on the border. I'm sure I've been here before, just not in any significant way.

A: This is the last stop on your fall Living Room Concert tour. How have the shows been so far? What motivated you to embark on such an adventure?

DT: A couple of years ago...maybe it was only last year…I don't remember…there was a guy in Copenhagen who asked me if I would do a show in his house. It wasn't really his house. He had a little outhouse around back and he had transformed one of the rooms into a small little concert venue, and it had a stage and a PA and everything. Held about 40 or 50 people. And he would put on shows and he would bring some fairly big people in. He brought in Mark E. Smith from the Fall and a bunch of other people. And he'd do maybe 3 or 4 a year. And he invited me down and it was really a great show. It was a great atmosphere…very enjoyable experience. And so, I got the idea from that. And I guess there's a certain amount of it going on in Europe…living room sort of shows. And I guess it's sort of catching on over here, so I thought I'd do it and give it a try. And I did three out in California in April and those were all highly successful, so I'm just doing the second series now. I'd like to do more. I've got a lot of offers, it's just the problem is organizing them, because everybody wants a show on the weekend- for obvious reasons- so, that really limits it to you kind of having to put together three at a time. But they have to be geographically linked, because I can't do these three, and then tomorrow night be somewhere else, and then Wednesday be somewhere else…I mean there's a five day gap. So on just practical matters it's just very slow and catchy to put them together. But I'll announce that I'll do a third one and see if I get enough offers to link some more things together. I've got two offers in Dallas and one in Wichita, so I might put that together. I don't know. It's really just geography (laughs). It's just really that simple.

A: It seems like a very interesting position to put yourself in, especially given the fact that you don't know anything about the people who are hosting them and/or attending?

DT: It's been brilliant. It's been great. I tried to set it up so that it would be a party atmosphere. The relationship of everything is totally different. So, yeah you don't know who the people are and if you screw it up, you've really screwed the pooch. Because at least in a commercial venue, if you screw it up- not that I do it that much, but I do have shows that I think are bad and other people say, "Oh, they're great," but I know that they're not- you just walk out of the place and you're done. Where, I'm sure some day will come along when I mess one of these up- for whatever reason- and that'll be hideous. A really hideous experience. But, so far that hasn't happened, and the audiences have all been really excited, and happy, and overwhelmed, as it were. And, you know, you rely on different skills. It's a totally different environment and relationship with the audience, which is challenging and why I do these things.

A: You just released the first new music from Rocket From The Tombs in 36 years. What was it like to revisit the creative impetus of your youth at this stage in your life?

DT: It wasn't particularly revisiting anything. It's just that we got back together in 2003 and we decided that the band sounded really good and everything worked really well and we just decided to go on being a band. It wasn't any sort of "revisiting" thing. It was a good band, so it wasn't like "we're a good band and just revisiting the past"…..no. It just took us a while to put the record out because there was a lot of volatile stuff going on- drinking and drugs and stuff that would interrupt everything- and there were some issues there that caused a lot of friction and trouble. And over the years all that got sorted out and everybody's dried up and cleaned up. So, we started writing right away back in 2003- or very soon after that- and over the years we'd get together every so often and work on new material and finally the band went into a permanent stable situation and this time we thought, "Let's record this stuff now."

A: The first single off the new Rocket From The Tombs album is titled "I Sell Soul," which is a phrase you have used to describe the nature of the act of performance as a musician. What exactly do you mean by "selling soul"?

DT: Well, what you do is you try to create something that feels like life. Something that feels like life in all its variations and conundrums. That's what I mean. It's not a terribly complicated or sophisticated thought. There's not really a lot of explanation that's necessary for it.

A: The music of Rocket From The Tombs and Pere Ubu has often been labeled as dark and doomstruck, but there has always been a great deal of humor involved as well. In fact, you playfully named the newest Rocket From The Tombs live release When It's Too Late To Die Young. In what ways has humor informed your art and music? And in what ways have people misread- to use your own words- your "strange kind of wit"?

DT: Well, you answered the question: they misread it. I don't know. I mean, everybody has templates that they apply to things. And things like doing stuff that's humorous at the same time that it's- as you say- "dark" doesn't fit any template. They want you to be Marilyn Manson, or they want you to be the Bonzo Dog Band or something. And when something doesn't obey those things- those templates- people get confused. Or they want to describe you according to the template that they like. All the bands that I grew up with in the Cleveland scene used [humor]. It's not that you're "using" humor, it's just that things are funny. It's a very classic "rock" point of view that was established by "Heartbreak Hotel." "Heartbreak Hotel" is not about the narrator. It's not about Elvis- the singer- checking into the hotel. It's about the clerk- the desk clerk- who's observing this whole behavior. That's the unique point of view of rock music, that God's eye point of view, or that third-party point of view. So, if you have that point of view, then it's also the point of view that many people experience in their lives, where they can stand back from themselves and see, "Oh, don't do that. That's gonna be a mess." Or, that's gonna be stupid and funny and foolish. And that's humorous. You can see the humor in the tragedy or the tragedy in the humor. You know, none of that is terribly sophisticated stuff. It's all pretty standard. I don't know…it's not my problem that this is an issue with people.

A: You've also previously equated the role of being a singer with that of a priest "mediating between the musicians and their intentions and the audience and its expectations." It is a paradigm you have suggested was ushered in by Elvis Presley….

DT: He didn't bring it in. It was established by the technology that Edison came up with. That's what established the role of singer as mediator. A priest is a mediator. But the technology- the microphone- established that. The speaker…the microphone…the technology made that inevitable.

A: Did Elvis influence you at all? Was that a voice you listened to?

DT: No, not really. Not more than anybody else. Elvis- in a lot of ways- was the first to do certain things, but I've never been an Elvis fan. I always appreciated what he did though.

A: In your lecture "The Geography of Sound," you also talk about Thomas Edison as being the father of rock and roll and the moment he first recorded sound onto a wax cylinder as the cultural "Big Bang" that would- in many ways- define the 20th century. What do you think that moment must have been like for him? Do you think he realized the implications that the "fracturing of scale" would have on human consciousness, perception, and art?

DT: Totally ordinary. He had no idea what he was doing…or, at least, I don't think he did. Edison was a very practical man. I don't know where he came up with the idea- this issue- that he set out to solve. I mean, he did do a lot of stream-of-consciousness poetry that's extremely weird- so you never know with him- but I haven't really made a study of him. I can just tell from what he did and what he said what was going on in his head. So, I don't know what he thought at the time. I mean, he must have understood to some degree what he was doing, but I don't think he would have understood the massive cultural implications of it right away. Nobody ever does. Most people just have a practical issue that they set out to deal with. Nobody sets out to change the world. And those that do end up being like Hitler or something.

A: In what ways has Edison's "fracturing of scale" informed your work? Have you been conscious of it?

DT: I wasn't conscious of it at the beginning. I came to an understanding of it. At the beginning I just thought that I was into sound. When I was getting into music it was the time of the analog synthesizer. Or, even before that, there was the Velvets who were doing different things with sound. Tons of people were doing different things with sound. And I recognized that pure sound- abstract sound- could play a vital role in music and that you could add great depth and width to the standard musical forms of melody, harmony, and rhythm. So, I imagined I understood what was going on, but it took me years to bother to explain it and put it into words just because, you know- like Edison- you don't sit there and go, "This is going to change the way people perceive things." You just see something and go "yeah." And I was aware of what else was going on in music. I wasn't sitting there thinking I was inventing anything, because we weren't. We were just continuing this very clear path that had been established by others…including Elvis…or Les Paul when he electrified the guitar…or when Edison did the microphone. They're all steps along a path. And in the 60's that path was accentuated by the analog synthesizer. And…you know…we just paid attention to where we were in the stream of time. And this was obviously the direction that it was supposed to go in, so being young and in touch with the moment- as it were- of what was going on, we said, "Well, this is where we're going to go with it. This is interesting. This is different. Few people are doing this. Few people have these ideas. So let's do the thing that few people are doing." As opposed to what everybody else is doing, which we really weren't suited personality wise to do in any case.

A: You have often stated that you have wanted to "change the boundaries of expression in the narrative voice." Are there still boundaries- in your mind- to be changed? Or have we reached a point of stagnation?

DT: Of course. There's always boundaries. There's always stuff to do. There's always further that you can go. The object is to replicate the human experience. And that's a pretty major project…a never ending project. There's no end to the boundaries. If you think in terms of limits to the boundaries then you're already screwed. That's why this is nonsense about "how rock has gone as far as it can." People that say that are just Neandarthals who want rock music to be stupid and like a dog returning to its vomit. Which is what punk was all about. It's no coincidence that punk happened at the same point that the new generation of rock musicians were going off into this abstract world- this greater depth- of creating an art form that was equivalent to literature. Or could certainly be considered to be equivalent to literature and art. And not in some creepy, turtleneck sweater-wearing, flute-playing girl way, but in a real meaningful adventure. So punk was simply a corporate effort designed to turn back progress. It was counter-revolutionary. It was reactionary. A totally destructive force. It worked. It sidetracked the mainstream- or what should have been the mainstream. Pere Ubu should have been the mainstream. In all of the great "new wave" or "punk" bands- the ones that ever really did anything like Television, or Talking Heads, or the Residents, or a hundred other groups- they all started before punk. They all started- really started- in the early-70's when this new generation of musicians was developing these ideas. Very little of substance followed that initial burst. I mean, that's not to say there weren't good bands, or good pop bands, and on, and on, and on…but of substance. It really was sidetracked. Because everybody had something to copy! You know, all of a sudden you could copy- not to criticize the Ramones, because they were a good band- but there was a template. You know: fast and hard, and blah-blah-blah, and angry…yaddy-yaddy-ya. So, you know, you dress a certain way and sound a certain way and you sing about certain sort of stuff…and blah-blah-blah. So there was something to copy. People always prefer to copy something. It's easier. You don't get grief over it. And again, I don't mean to be critical- people have the right to do anything they want- it's just that that's the way it worked and that's the analysis of it. There's no value judgements in the analysis, it's just that that's what happened.

A: The last Pere Ubu project before your new release The Lady of Shanghai was your adaptation of Alfred Jarry's infamous 19th-century play Ubu Roi, whose lead character was not only the inspiration for the band itself, but also your own alter ego Crocus Behemoth. You often talk about the idea of conceptual continuity as being a guiding principle in all of your work. Was there a natural- and perhaps inevitable- narrative arc that lead you to reinterpret the work of Jarry for a new generation?

DT: No, it wasn't inevitable. I've been asked over the decades "why don't I do it"? And I always thought, "Well, I don't really have anything to add to it." I'm not going to do it just because I can do it. What's the point of that? Then along the way I was at a Brian Wilson party at the Southbank Centre and this guy- Glen Max who used to do the Knitting Factory in New York, and then he was music director at Southbank, which is the biggest arts venue in England- asked me to do it. And at the time I had been thinking about the fact that I wanted to make the next Pere Ubu record something that went in a much more theatrical direction…using sound as theater. So I was already set up to do something like that. I had already done "Mirror Man"- which is sort-of an improvisational opera- and I thought, "I can go further with this idea." So, he suggested it and- coincidentally- I had been thinking about some ideas that Ubu Roi would suit…that could be a good vehicle for it. So, I thought, "Alright. I guess it's time to do it." I mean, I took great liberties with it. I tried to stay faithful to the intention and the spirit of the original, but there's a lot of stuff that I just adapted. The play is just…it ain't that good of a play (laughs). You know? Let's face it. I know it's influential and all that, but it ain't that good. There's a lot of crap in it. So I cut out the crap and just focused on the stuff that emphasized certain ideas that I wanted to present.

A: How was the play received?

DT: The people that have seen it think it's great. It's a bit of a mess at times, but it's meant to be a mess. It's meant to be totally chaotic and verging on falling apart at any moment. And it was set up to do that. But the people who have seen it think it's great.

A: Is it the original Disastodrome?

DT: Well, that notion of how to do things has always been part of our work ethic. People like that too. They think it's "dangerous." They feel the tension of the thing just barely hanging on. And it's a technique we've designed into what we do forever. Often at times over the years I would pull the band off the stage if things were screwed up- for various technical reasons or something, or we just weren't playing that well- and I would say "we'll be back in five minutes." Because it's easier just to go off and get your breath, calm down, get the sound man in and say, "Blah-blah-blah this is all screwed up." But there's also another thing to it where the audience is really worried, you know? (laughs) They're going, "Are they going to come back? What's going on?" And that's very beneficial. It's very good technique to use with an audience.

A: Finally, this summer your hometown of Cleveland, OH lost one of its great musical personalities in the form of revered journalist Jane Scott, who was an early supporter of Pere Ubu. How important was she to the music community there and to Pere Ubu in particular?

DT: Well, the thing that Jane did is that she didn't perceive, or treat, or consider some local band like Pere Ubu who had just played a couple of gigs any differently from the Rolling Stones or something. She didn't think any of these weird bands in the Cleveland scene that everybody knows about were any different than any band just doing cover versions that could attract a thousand people...whereas we were getting twenty or fifty in some wretched little club in the Flats. She didn't think she should treat any of those people any differently. And she was always enthusiastic about everything and wrote enthusiastically. She didn't write particularly perceptively, or particularly great, or in-depth, she was just enthusiastic about it all. And in those days when everybody thought we were shit it was important. At least psychologically. I mean- gee- the main writer in town likes us. She writes about us. You know? And that's nice. It's psychologically good. And it was beneficial that she would write about us and people would come to see us. So, she was very important.

In memory of Jane Scott (May 3, 1919 – July 4, 2011). Forever young. Forever 16.

The Flaming Lips LIVE at the 2012 Hangout Festival

Here's the complete show from the Lips' closing slot at the Hangout Festival performing Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon. Enjoy.

ANY COLOUR YOU LIKE

The Kings of Existential Rock Return to the Hangout to Present Pink Floyd's 

Dark Side of the Moon

        When it comes to brain-searing, synapses-frying rock & roll shows, there are few modern bands who can match the cartoonish psychedelic maelstrom of Oklahoma City's the Flaming Lips. As the minds behind of some of the most visionary art-rock of the past 15 years- starting with 1999's avant-pop masterpiece The Soft Bulletin- the Lips have made a point of turning their live concerts into a symbiotic spectacle of light, sound, and theater that remains unparalleled in contemporary music. Littering their stage with giant balloons, oversized confetti canons and streamer guns, and fans dressed up in a dizzying array of costumes- with everything from space aliens, super heroes, and giant caterpillars making it into the mix- the band have managed to transform their performances into day-glo bacchanalian rave-ups that can only be described as epic in their scope and intensity. Crowning their visual onslaught with a giant LED screen flashing synchronized, high-def cinematic eye-candy behind the band as they run through crescendo after crescendo of aural delight, it is truly a sight to behold.
        And whether singing songs about pink robots, the state of world affairs, or the death of a loved one, the group repeatedly go out of their way to bring a sense of levity to what can be an overwhelming physical- and mental- experience. Sublimely juxtaposing the psychological extremes of joyous revelry and existential anxiety with the prismatic pandemonium they unleash on a nightly basis, the band have pulled off an unlikely synthesis in the annals of 21st century art and music. Having tapped into the zeitgeist of hope and fear that seems to permeate our cultural politics, the Flaming Lips seem hellbent on making sure that their fans leave their events with a smile on their face and a new perspective on their place in the universe. And although P.T. Barnum may have laid claim to "The Greatest Show On Earth" years before the band ever existed, a convincing argument could be made that the title rightfully belongs to them, as the band seem to relish the idea of creating a communal freak-out of monumental proportions.
Having recently released the highly anticipated compilation album The Flaming Lips and Heady Fwends- a series of wild, one-off collaborations featuring everyone from Yoko Ono, to Ke$ha and Biz Markie, and Jim James from My Morning Jacket- as part of the nationwide Record Store Day celebration, the band are ready to take their three-ring circus back out on the road for a series of summer dates, including a Sunday night closing slot at the Hangout Festival in Gulf Shores. Returning to the festival for the second year in a row to give a rare performance of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon- a thematic touchstone that could be seen as a founding document for much of the band's oeuvre- the group couldn't be happier about making their way back to the sight of one of last year's most dramatic performances.
        But they're not the only ones, says festival talent buyer Todd Coder, "We couldn't be more excited about having the Flaming Lips back to the Hangout for a second year. Their show paints perfectly on the canvas of the festival, and to witness their rendition of such a classic work- like Dark Side of the Moon- on the beach is sure to be one of the highlights of this year's special event."
       As a preview of the upcoming extravaganza, the AUDIOVORE spoke with lead singer Wayne Coyne about their new album, working with Yoko Ono, the influence of Pink Floyd, and why the Hangout is one of the best festivals anywhere on the planet. This is what he said....


A: You all have put out a rather remarkable series of releases over the past year or so, including a gummy skull with a four-song USB stick embedded in it, a 24-hour long track, and a piece meant to be played simultaneously on twelve smartphones. Where do you get your inspiration for such radical formatting?

WC: Well, part of it is that we just think that it would be cool. I don't think it really requires inspiration. I'm constantly around creative weirdos who think, "Wouldn't it be great, Wayne, if you put some music in a human skull?" I mean, as an idea, I think anybody would think that that's cool. You know, it's like, "Sure, that sounds great!" Luckily I live in a city where there's one of the only people- one of the only professional companies in the whole world- that allows a weirdo like myself to just come in and buy an actual human skull. And I wasn't aware of that until I went to make these. I'd been going by this place- I think they go by the name Skulls Unlimited- and they're a supplier of all these types of bones that are being cleared of all their flesh and everything, so, I think it's just by coincidence. As far as us doing gummy candy and stuff like that, I would be searching and thinking, "I like that too. How can I make this?," and someone would appear- like Eric, this guy who owns a gummy factory- and he would say, "Wayne, I love you guys, let me help you." So a lot of it is serendipitous: I'm trying to get something to work and people come to my aid and help me and that allows things to happen. And I think that's just the spirit of all the collaborations that we've done. It's not just collaborations with the music. Like making the vinyl for this record that came out on Record Store Day. I mean, we did work with this guy's record manufacturing shop in Dallas, and he dedicated two of his machines completely to us, and I had a friend of mine who's an artist in there handmaking each one of the vinyl. And it takes a lot longer than just feeding the machine automatically and it just prints out records. He did each one by hand. And it's a meticulous, time-consuming job, but it's done out of the spirit of doing all of this. And it's done because they love it and it's something very cool.

A: I was going to ask you about that. It's a rather unique set of collaborations. How did the album come about? How did you decide on the artists you wanted to work with?

WC: Well, I don't think we really knew going back more than a year ago. We were simply in this mode of releasing something every month. Part of us thought that it would just be kind of boring after three or four months just to get another Flaming Lips song….or two, or three. So, we thought, we'll try and make every other month be with one of our friends, or some group that we've run into, and we would make them into one of these one-off collaboration things. And then, as it went, it eventually became an interesting part of what we were doing. All of these are kind of limited releases. All of the collaborations that we've done have only been released on vinyl, and some of them are only 2,000 copies. So, they would go quite quickly and not very many people would be able to get them, because frankly, they wouldn't make it to very many record stores before people would buy them up. So, I think all along there's been a little bit of a desire to make it more available. And then, as the year started, we thought, "Well, why don't we see if we could do a bigger release on Record Store Day."
        And- I have to tell you- this was long before I knew that I was going to work with Bon Iver, or Edward Sharpe, or Ke$ha, or Jim James, or Chris Martin. I mean, there are six or seven that are on this thing that I didn't even know I was going to be doing anything with until the very end of January. I just kept trying and trying. So, there's a lot of it that's just been pure panic over problems of seeing if we can get these people to do this or that. So, I think that's what makes it really great: a lot of this was simply done on the spot. Which can make it good or bad, but sometimes that makes some of the greatest, unique music. And, you know, I wish that wasn't true. I wish that you could just sit in a room and think, and think, and think, and would come up with something better, but sometimes that's just not true. Sometimes things just happen in the spirit, and the energy, and the creativity that's happening right there and it's just wonderful. So, I think part of us knows that that has the potential to happen. And, of course, sometimes nothing happens and it's boring. But I tell you, I think it's something really, really special. We tried to collect what we feel like are some really stellar moments, like, "Here is the best junk that happened when we got together with everybody."

A: What was it like working with Yoko Ono?

WC: Well, Yoko is one of those that most of the stuff we did with her was just simply over e-mails and computers. We worked with Sean- her son- and his group the Plastic Ono Band, but Yoko was in Japan the day we worked with him, so that was a little bit weird because we're working with a real group but Yoko wasn't part of it. But Yoko was involved by us sending her tracks and she would send us tracks back- and she would have a lot of opinions and say-so about what happened- but it wasn't as though we were standing there with her. I mean like with Nick Cave….I know Nick Cave and I've been around him, and when we went to record he was one of those that we really did in a studio with people- like Neon Indian, Lightning Bolt, and Ke$ha….there's quite a few of them. I don't think we could have done this many this quickly if we were trying every time to be standing in the same room at the same time. Some of these people are just too busy. I mean, Chris Martin, and Justin Vernon of Bon Iver, and Jim James of My Morning Jacket were all three at the Grammys at the same time while I'm texting and talking to them about the music that we're making, so it wasn't as though many of these people were "recording" when I was dealing with them. They were doing other things and we were just doing this happenstance and any way we could get the recording done. But I wasn't really aware of it. I know that everybody's busy, so I just got to work to see what we could do. Luckily, through e-mails and through the computer you can really do tons and tons of great music and have it released in the same month together.

A: You actually got to perform with Yoko a few months ago as part of your annual New Year's Eve extravaganza in Oklahoma City. Seemed like quite an event….

WC: Well…the idea that someone like myself- and here's what you have to remember, I mean, I'm 51 years old, so I grew up with my older brother loving the Beatles and loving Yoko Ono and all that- so to actually be able to be around her and play a show of that magnitude with her was incredible. And there were two shows, so we really had some time together. And we had played shows before with Sean and his group, and he's beautiful as well. Really just wonderful people to be lucky enough to be around. I mean, to know that they are this living connection to John Lennon…it's just amazing. You know, whenever we do a New Year's show- obviously it's a big Flaming Lips extravaganza- but there's always an extra thing that we do. And this past year we did a series of these John Lennon/Beatles songs- songs that we just subconsciously play in our mind all the time anyway- and we did "I Want You (She's So Heavy)," which is a song John wrote at the peak of being in love with Yoko Ono. So, to play that song while Sean and Yoko stand just eight feet away from you watching you play it onstage was a pretty powerful experience.

A: As a band that seems to put a high premium on original music, you guys really seem to enjoy the idea of covering other people's music as well. What is it about the cover song that you all find so appealing?

WC: Well, I think that it's a great compliment. I don't necessarily think the things I create are all that good, but occasionally something really special happens, and I'm an obsessive, creative freak. I'm not proud of that, I just know that it's in my nature to do things, so I think a by-product of that is that we do make a lot of original music. I don't know if it's always good music, but it's original. But I love, love, love music, and any group that's been together as long as the Flaming Lips have been together- almost 30 years next year- you have the luxury of exploring not just your own music….but….we have a lot of time to consider, "How is this other music made?" and "What did they do?," because we're curious…. we're interested. And when you get to meet someone like a Yoko Ono, or be around someone like a Sean Lennon, you just talk to them about how things are done and how they did the work. That's just the nature of curiosity. I don't think you could love music as much as we do and not almost be compelled to play this music that you love if you're able to. I mean, I'm not a very good musician, so I can't always play other people's music. But someone like Steven [Drozd], he can play any music ever. He can play Igor Stravinsky. He can play Miles Davis. He's that calibre of musician where he can play anything. So, I think we're really lucky to have this combination of one of the great living masters of music, and then you've got me who's just the fucking weirdo and I'm lucky that I get to play any type of music that I can dream of….

A: Is there an art to the cover song?

WC: Well, I don't know. The way we do it, we take the creation of the song very serious, because we know how all the lucky accidents- and how many little things- happen that are not always your intention. There's what you're trying to do, but then if you're lucky- the way we do music- we accept everything that happens to our music as we're making it, because we think it makes it better. We think it makes it more human and makes it…special. We don't really want to have to think of everything before it happens. I mean, I think this would also be true when you talk to people that write novels. You know, they have an idea of what they're going to say, but of course they don't have the words before they say it, they just start going. And sometimes a whole chapter gets written before they even know what's going on. Painting is like this. All things are like this. You kind of know what you're doing, but if you're lucky, you kind of get into a sleepwalker's state of mind and you're going into it and creating and you're not actually doing it consciously. It's happening and you're letting it happen. So, to me, when I hear other people's music I always try and think, "We can't change that bit of it." You know, there's times when we know we can change the dynamic, or we can change the drama, or some of the big sounds and make them different. But then there are other times where there would be things that we would not change. And it depends on the song.
       And, you know, when we would talk about doing something like a Beatles song, most people living today never saw the Beatles play. I almost never run into someone who saw the Beatles play. But a big portion of the their catalog is stuff that they never even played live because they stopped being a live group pretty early on. So when we would do something like cover a song like "Strawberry Fields Forever" or "I Want You (She's So Heavy)," we would do it as much like the record as you can. That's not to say that I can sing like John Lennon or we can play exactly like Ringo Starr, but we would play it like what you think would happen. We'd play it with some dynamic- and with emotion and feeling and all that- but we wouldn't think that we'd want to change it. The only thing that we changed about it is like when we played "She's So Heavy" in concert we made it 15 minutes long. I mean, on the record it's only like six minutes, but we always got the feeling that they played it, and played it, and played it, because you really do get kind of possessed with this riff. You kind of get hypnotized by it. It's not easy to stop once you're into it because it's kind of energizing you every time you go through it. So we kind of felt like that was us taking some liberties and saying, "We think it could last 15 minutes and still be a really intense experience."

A: Speaking of cover songs…you all will be returning to the Hangout Festival for the second year in a row to give a rare performance of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon. How big of a touchstone is Floyd in terms of your music? Do you see a lineage between them and the Flaming Lips?

WC: Well yeah, I mean, there's a whole slew of groups who wouldn't even know to exist if it wasn't for a group like Pink Floyd. Even with their popular music- and we're playing Dark Side of the Moon, which is arguably their most popular music- it's really the idea of Pink Floyd. Even starting with Syd Barrett, it was very punk rock and art-oriented and anybody who's interested in experimental art would love a group like Pink Floyd. I don't know why you wouldn't. For us, a lot of the reasons we started as a group were based in this punk rock idea of doing music. But not just doing punk rock. Because we love punk rock, but more than we love punk rock, we love the idea of punk rock: meaning you could just make any music you wanted to and you didn't really have to be a very good musician. I mean, currently I play with some of the greatest living musicians there are, but I myself come from this idea that I just like this voice in music and I'm not really sure how to make it. And Pink Floyd evolved into a very sophisticated musical group, but I think at their core anything can happen. You know, like, "Let's accept any kind of art. Let's make our music any way that we want." There's anarchy, and there's love, and there's all these things that make it remarkable. So, yeah. But I know a lot of groups that we talk to- even if their music doesn't sound like Pink Floyd- love Pink Floyd, because it's all about everything. You know, it's not just music, it's a performance….it's a show. It's evoking so many things.

A: There seems to be some common narrative themes running throughout both….life and death, darkness and light, madness.

WC: Well, yeah. I think that's basically the nature of that type of artist. You know, when you're so insecure- and I'm not paralyzed by insecurity- but when you think about your place in the world and in existence, usually the things that you sing about are the horrible, uncontrollable things that you can't do anything about. So, for me, I'm rarely writing about things that are silly and fun- like having sex and stuff like that- because I kind of do that all the time anyway [laughs]. So the things I can't control are, you know, going insane and death in my family. Things that are like, "Oh my god, I can't do anything about that," those are the things I sing about. So, I just think that's the nature of that kind of artist. Most artists I know do the exact same thing. The things they can control they're not worried about that much. I'm not going to sing about always having a good time. I'm singing about, "Oh my god, what's going to happen? I'm scared. I don't know what's going to happen to my family or my mind." I have questions about the nature of existence and the nature of reality that I can't just sit there and forget about. I think that's what everybody does. Well, not everybody. A lot of people sing about sex and things- you know, these "great" moments- but, I guess to me, I don't feel an urge to sing- or think- about those things, because- the way the mechanism in my mind works- I'm usually thinking about things that drive me crazy. Like, "I don't know what to do," or things about insanity and death, or depression and isolation….those sorts of things. I mean, we get tied up with sex and desire and all that, but I'm not really singing about "I need to go fuck this gal"….[laughs]. I should though.

A: You all radically reinterpreted the album when you released it as a record a couple of years ago, but have also done some more straight ahead versions of some of the songs in concert. What can fans expect from your performance in Gulf Shores?

WC: Well, you're exactly right. When we went to go record Dark Side of the Moon you have to remember it was all very spur of the moment. We were really just doing it as an extra bonus thing that you could get when you bought one of our previous records on iTunes. So, we didn't really feel like we were constricted to playing something like Pink Floyd. I mean, we knew we were doing Dark Side of the Moon, but- some of the songs- I think you can hear them and still not really be sure what it is and then you figure out, "Oh, that's a Pink Floyd song." But, when we go play in front of people we want them to know this is this Pink Floyd song. I think most of it now we play pretty straightforward. I don't mean straightforward like we don't allow there to be any tension or drama, but we play what you would recognize as those songs to the best of our abilities. I mean, I don't want to be playing "Money"- a song that everybody knows- and people not know that we're playing it. You know, I've been to shows where groups do that and I don't like it. I mean, if it's a song that I know, I want to have the song roll over me as it's being played and have it triggering my memory and my experience all at the same time. So, we're aware of that. The songs that we really tripped out on the record we change to be more like something recognizable as a Pink Floyd song, just with us doing it. Then we add in these layers within the performance of The Wizard of Oz. We put in probably- I don't know- five or six references to that as well, because we're a part of that stoner folklore of putting on the movie while playing the record and sort of marveling at all the little coincidences that happen between the lyrics and the movie. And we love those sorts of things. It's all very visual, and it's all very drug-oriented, and it's all very fun to do. You know, there's a lot of really great music within The Wizard of Oz that talks about loneliness, and your place in the world and all that, so there's a lot of great connections to a lot of the great music out there. So, I think that it's a very Flaming Lips world to think that we could do music like The Wizard of Oz and we could also do music like Pink Floyd. I think it's what the Flaming Lips are all about any way.

A: Finally, as someone who has played music festivals all over the world, I was wondering what you thought about the Hangout. How does it stack up in terms of other venues/spaces you've played? As a band who loves to provide an unforgettable experience for their audience, it seems like the perfect setting for you all. Are you excited to come back?

WC: Well, I can't speak for what it's like when we're not there, but when we were at the Hangout last year, it was just the perfect moment. You know, I kind of got the feeling that everybody was waiting for this thing to happen. And when we came onstage and started playing- as cornball as it sounds- it was like, "Dude, now the party is here." And you just don't always get that feeling like, alright, when you think about all the things that are happening in the world, you think, "We're in one of the fucking coolest places in the world you could be at right now." In the whole world. And with everything that exists out there this is one of the places you should be right now. And that was the feeling we got last year, like, "Fuck. That's cool." And that's not necessarily just because of the festival. It's the people, it's the time, it's the weather, it's the drugs. It's a lot of things coming together and we're lucky enough to say, "We're gonna play this music where we all have this great couple of hours together." And then of course you go swimming and you've got the beach and it's summertime. And you know, not all festivals are lucky enough to get all those elements and that energy. These are things that are corny to talk about, but there has to be a little bit of a vibe of people communing with each other. That that happens. That there is an element of love, and energy, and care, and all these things that can sound a little bit cosmic when you speak about them, but really I think they're quite true.

The Flaming Lips will be performing at 6:30 on Sunday at the Chevrolet Stage. For more information visit the Hangout Festival website here: http://www.hangoutmusicfest.com/

      Get ready Birmingham!!! With Secret Stages just four days away, downtown is preparing itself for an influx of incredible musicians from across the country and the Audiovore wants to give you the skinny on one of the most exciting new music festivals in the Southeast. As one of the best things to happen to the Magic City music scene since the Bottletree opened a few years ago, the two-day festival is set to introduce the local population to some of the hottest new sounds around, with everything from bracing indie-rock, club-banging hip-hop, and the avant-garde ready to take over the loft district.
      With over 80 bands and 11 comedians on the docket (and a pub crawl to boot!!!), there will be a little bit of something for everyone. But don't be fooled. This is no South By Southwest hype machine. The Secret Stages crew want to bring you premium cutting edge music without all the crap and a healthy respect for both bands and audiences alike. A lofty goal? Perhaps. But it's one worth fighting for. Somebody's got to separate the wheat from the chaff.
      As a preview of the festival, I spoke with Secret Stages talent buyer - and impresario of local record label Skybucket Records- Travis Morgan about what to expect from this year's event, why South By Southwest has become a bloated albatross for up-and-coming bands, and which acts he plans on catching at this year's throwdown. This is what he said....


Audiovore: So this is the second year of Secret Stages. What's new with the festival? Any major changes to the layout or dynamic of the event?

Travis Morgan: It's about the same number of bands and comedians as last year. It's actually a few less and on purpose. We wanted to pack out the venues just a little more and flesh out the footprint. We didn't have a problem with venues being slim last year, however, we didn't want that to be in question, so there's a few less things at the same time. As we grow, that may change. We'll see what this year brings. We have a few more fixtures this time: more food vendors and visual enhancements. We moved the main outdoor stage into the street on 2nd Ave N. We've also added an experimental/improv stage at Steel on Saturday night featuring musicians on the national/world radar for the genre. Then there's the hip-hop stage that will take place at Matthew's Friday and Saturday night. Lobotomix has curated the stage there for Saturday and they're gonna have a crazy cool lineup and entertainment.

A: I heard that Third Man Records is going to have their mobile record store there. How did you get them involved?

TM: Well, we tried to have them last year, but believe it or not, the record store was in the shop.  And I imagine you don't hear "our record store is in the shop" that often. They fit well with our aesthetic- and our's with their's - so it works out. It's going to be a nice addition.

A: What inspired you to want to start something like this in Birmingham? Was there a void you all thought needed to be filled in terms of large scale music programming?

TM: I'd be lying if I said I hadn't thought about starting a music festival in some form here for a long time. However, the way this festival came about was through Chuck Leishman. He called together a roundtable about two-and-a-half years ago to create a pub crawl festival in Birmingham and I was one of the people invited to it. As I often do, I got excited with the idea and ran with it. I kept calling Chuck for weeks and months after the initial meeting asking how things were coming along and I guess I showed enough enthusiasm to get to book the festival, and when the timing was right, I got the job. So, I got in there at the beginning. I guess you could say there was a void, however.
        Without sounding pretentious...I don't think that Birmingham's ever had anything quite like Secret Stages. Like many kids that grew up in Birmingham, I attended City Stages most years from when I was a teenager up to its final year and I'm glad I had the opportunity to see a number of good bands there throughout that time. But, while Secret Stages is a music festival- and there are multiple stages like City Stages- we are quite different. While City Stages could be very diverse, it also could book bands that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Secret Stages doesn't see the need to spend that kind of money on one artist. Also, our concentration is on Southeastern acts and also acts that you probably haven't heard. We also showcase the best up-and-coming local acts as well. Our local music scene is strong and that's a really important part of the festival.

A: How was the turnout last year? Were you all happy with the way everything went down?

TM: The turnout was really great last year. I'd say a few thousand people attended over the two nights, and for a first year event like ours, I think that's really an achievement. Overall, I think the festival was a hit. We had problems like any festival. Much of that was being short on volunteers and being spread thin. We certainly need more volunteers this year, but we're already better off than last year. We had some issues with artist hospitality not having enough food on the first night, but that was corrected by the second night. It also rained one night a little and we shifted the last couple bands on the outdoor stage indoors. Fortunately, we're an indoor festival so rain is not as much of an issue as with having outdoor stages.

A: What were some of the highlights from the inaugural event?

TM: Some of my favorite acts were Ahleuchatistas, Velvet Kente, William Tyler, Vulture Whale, Brass Bed, the Deloreans, the Love Language, the Chad Fisher Group, Madeline, and Johnny Bertram & the Golden Bicycles. I didn't even get to see nearly as many bands as I wanted to see, however, I had a great time watching it all play out. A lot of people also raved about some of the performances I only got to catch a moment of like Howlies, Belle Adair, Futurebirds, the Great Book of John, and the Sunshine Factory.

A: South By Southwest seems like an obvious touchstone for what you all are trying to do in terms of introducing audiences to new and upcoming bands. Do you see SXSW as a model for Secret Stages or as something to define yourself against?

TM: Actually, it's funny you say that. I definitely have a love/hate relationship with SXSW. I've been going for nearly the past 10 years. I'd say SXSW is certainly a strong example of both what to do and what not to do. We're certainly nowhere near the size festival that SXSW is, but we're also not a music conference. However, I would like to see us grow in stature in the industry. Where I feel like we differ the most is we don't use hype, status, album sales, and publicity as much as a basis for booking a band.  SXSW is almost more about hype than about quality. This is not to say there aren't a ton of great bands there. There certainly are, but, it's difficult to find a filter to trust out there. It's very hit or miss. While I hope people will think within the genres they're interested in, artists performing at Secret Stages are mostly hits.
      The other aspect of booking that's different for us is that SXSW allows the industry to come showcase there, which is another aspect of its hands being tied by the companies trying to get a leg up. I personally feel like that kind of stuff can be overly political and takes away from a credible curation process. Secret Stages is careful about things like that.
      The third thing that's a major difference is that we don't have a submission process. While SXSW, in my opinion, scams thousands of bands out of $25 to $35- or more- to submit with no real chance of getting selected, Secret Stages does not. We try not to give bands false hopes. We hope that if a band is truly great that we will discover them through the process of live shows, press, and communication via music aficionados. While SXSW asks artists to submit, it does not pay bands AT ALL. Bands incur a lot of costs to travel to Texas to showcase. While Secret Stages doesn't draw nearly the amount of industry to Birmingham as Austin does for SXSW, we pay our bands as well as we can. We are super concerned with our artists being compensated and having a great experience in Birmingham. We want to know what kinds of problems they experience so we don't repeat those problems.
      On another note, I feel SXSW's credibility is getting diluted by the sheer size and amount of selected bands. If you think about it, can 1200 or more bands really all be great? Additionally, the day parties that take place also have the same effect. While I love the idea of music everywhere, there is certainly a part of me that feels that SXSW has spun off the tracks. That's why we're not having or encouraging day parties this year. That may change in the future, but we will always maintain control of our own booking. I want Secret Stages to be slow growing. I surely hope that it is a beacon for the amazing things to come in the near future.

A: Do you see a future for the festival in, say, the next five years or so? Do you think that Birmingham has the capacity to support such an endeavor on a year-to-year basis?

TM: I have no accurate way to answer that. I can't predict the future. I can only hope that enough excitement is stirred up that people want to keep coming back year after year. I can only assume that it will be even more popular this year after last year's success. I do have an underlying feeling that if we can maintain what we're doing that we will be around for a long time. I don't want to let Secret Stages spin out of control like SXSW did. And I think that will take a huge amount of work: always looking at what's best for the credibility of the festival and not for other reasons. My goal will be to help make Secret Stages a nationally reputable music festival.

A: On the other side of the coin, you all seem to be very civic-minded when it comes to integrating the local community into the festival itself. Whether highlighting local bands, getting area businesses involved, or putting a spotlight on local artisans. How important is the local community to an event like this?

TM: The whole Secret Stages crew is definitely civic minded. I think we all see the importance of local businesses being at the heart of the community and we all personally support them. I would say we are also activists and fight for the betterment of our community. I think Birmingham is truly blossoming into something unique and I attribute that to the art that is spewing out of the sidewalks, parks, local business windows, local bars, etc. Our local art is reflecting where we are as a city. I hope that Secret Stages is able to inspire local artists as much as they inspire us.

A: Finally, I know it's probably a tough question to answer, but do you have any acts that you're particularly excited about at this year's festival? Any must see shows?

TM: Hiss Golden Messenger is great. One of my favorites these days. M.C. Taylor was in a band called the Court & Spark. He has a great voice and is a solid songwriter. I'm stoked that he's making the trip. He rarely plays in the states. Dope Body from Baltimore is crazy and a blast. They deliver a hell of a live show. Shovels & Rope is amazing. You must see them if you haven't. Lydia Burrell from Louisville is a really cool band. They have a record on Jim James's label. Dennis González Yells at Eels will also be a festival highlight. They're an extremely talented trio capable of, well, really anything, but definitely leaning into the avant-garde. Terry Ohms and Them are terrific. They're a side project of Wes McDonald's from Vulture Whale. You wouldn't think it though. They are quite different than Vulture Whale, which shows McDonald's ability to effortlessly shift genres. I saw them recently and they blew my mind. City Champs are rad also. A real deal jazz trio with Memphis soul leanings. And lastly, Social Studies from Atlanta are a futuristic and smart hip-hop duo that showcase a 90's influenced rap style with early Warp Records-era IDM, amongst other things.
        I know I'm leaving some off the list, but honestly I couldn't name all the ones I'm excited about.



Secret Stages will be taking place in downtown Birmingham May 11 & 12. For more information and tickets check out their website here: http://www.secretstages.net/

VIRGIN ARSENAL:

Wooden Wand Returns to the Magic City

"We were at the Wal-Mart for the irony

And huddled 'round the flame at the KOA

And I was visualizin' something sinister and slow

The pavement got sticky burning with a scorpion glow."    

  
     James Jackson Toth is a hard man to keep up with. In fact, it might be damn near impossible. As one of the fledgling acolytes of the New Weird America movement that gave birth to the likes of Devendra Banhart and Joanna Newsome, the chameleon-like songwriter has made a career out of confounding both critics and fans alike with his genre-bending forays into avant-folk, country, and- on occasion- good old fashioned rock n' roll. A prolific wordsmith whose workman-like ethos has led to over a hundred releases- both as a solo artist operating under the moniker Wooden Wand (or Wand), as well as with group projects- Toth doesn't pull any punches when it comes to stamping out product. Having served stints in such wildly eclectic outfits as Akron/Family, the Vanishing Voice, and the Sky High Band, his seeming need to keep consumers guessing has become something of a hallmark for the Kentucky based troubadour. Conventional enough to qualify as a true craftsman when it comes to songwriting prowess, his wayward musical tendencies have also garnered him the attention of such avant-luminaries as Thurston Moore of Sonic Youth and Michael Gira of the Swans, both of whom have released records of his on their respective labels.
     Having traveled to Birmingham last year to record the excellent Briarwood album at Ol' Elegante Studios in Homewood- a project initially funded by an online Kickstarter campaign for diehard fans- Toth has come to embrace the city as something of a second home when it comes to music-making. Having initially arrived here to do a one-off split 7" with local rockers the Gum Creek Killers, Toth became so enamored with his musical cohorts (and they with him) that plans were hatched to do an entire album based off the good vibes and mutual admiration spawned during the session. Although the 7" has yet to see the light of day, the record that emerged in the aftermath was one of the best albums to come out of the Magic City in recent memory and stands as a testament Birmingham's increasing notoriety as a first rate music town. In fact, it was so good, it has already been re-released by Fire Records in an effort to give it a wider audience after having flown well under most people's radars both nationally and here at home.           
     Facilitated by Gum Creek Killers frontman Duquette Johnston- who had been a longtime friend of Toth's wife, Leah, when she lived here in town booking bands for Bottletree-  the partnership proved to be a match made in heaven. With additional help from fellow co-conspirators Brian Lowery, Through The Sparks' Jody Nelson, and producer/engineer Les Nuby, the band- re-christened the Briarwood Virgins- took a highly democratic approach in creating the album that allowed for a distinctly organic sound to evolve, with Toth giving everyone room to contribute.
     "James just came in and let everybody do exactly what needed to be done," says Nuby. "We just made an immediate connection. He's just one of those people where he might as well be from Birmingham. It's no wonder him and Leah are together, because he's just one of those guys who immediately fits into- not just being Southern- but that sort of, strange, 'Birmingham's a wonderful little secret' and we don't tell that many people about it. He understood all the dynamics of that and it translated into the recordings. I had never engineered or produced a record where so many different people from different bands played on it and left the ego at the door. Me included."
     With an arsenal of talent at his disposal, Toth utilized the strengths of each individual player and helped to foster a spirit of openness that translated into a heady brew of smoky harmonies, Dixie-fried Americana, and Neil Young-inspired riffage. Like a low-slung hymnal of lost country blues hellbent on a rock n' roll revival, the album seemed to coalesce around a need to inspire both each other and the music. From the snowbound melancholy of "Winter In Kentucky" to the hazy swagger of "Motel Stationary" the whole record teemed with outstanding performances from everyone involved.
     "It's funny thinking back on it," adds Nuby, "because it came together so quickly and so well I wanted it to come out so the secret I knew could be shared with people."
     And although many people are just now coming to find out about it, Toth has already returned to Birmingham to record the follow-up, which everyone from the band agrees is a major step forward in terms of the group's dynamic collaboration. In fact, Toth himself has gone as far as calling it a career defining album. With no release date set, fans will have to wait to hear the end results, but until then Toth and and his bandmates hope that more people will revisit the first album to help whet their appetites.
     As a preview of what's to come, I spoke with Toth to discuss his labyrinthine career, the making of Briarwood, and his thoughts on the Birmingham music scene. This is what he said....

                        "Winter In Kentucky" by Wooden Wand & The Briarwood Virgins
  


A: You're a highly prolific artist in terms of recorded output and seem to have a nearly boundless vocabulary when it comes to making music. Is there a method to your madness or do you just enjoy the idea of documenting the process of creation?

WW: I started writing as a kid, and I guess I just never stopped. As an adult I enjoy the process as much as the results, so making a record is my absolute favorite thing to do. I do write constantly, but you have to write ten bad songs to write one good one, and 100 good ones to write one great one. Writing songs is the only thing I’m good at, unless you count making grilled cheese. My grilled cheese is the stuff of legend.

A: How did you first start out as a musician?

WW: My dad was constantly buying me records, or taking me to the record store and letting me pick out albums. I had a cousin in a pretty high profile metal band, and my uncle was a Neil Young fanatic, so, although I wouldn’t say I come from an especially musical family, there were a lot of things to inspire me and make me feel like I could make a living this way. I played mostly metal up until college, when I started learning country songs. That’s really when I began to write songs seriously, as opposed to dicking around making primitive recordings on a karaoke machine.

A: You've gone through a lot of permutations as both a solo artist and with bands. Do you see- or try to maintain- any conceptual continuity within your body of work, or are things more compartmentalized according to specific projects?

WW: Honesty in performance and execution is the only concept, and my only unbreakable rule. I don’t believe in repeating myself, and every record is and should be different from the previous ones. Most of my heroes made careers out of confounding expectations. You do risk alienating people by following the muse and ignoring current fashions, but if you start worrying about that sort of thing, you start making shitty records.

A: I know you are an avid record collector and music aficionado. Do you find yourself consciously trying to frame your music within a larger historical context or do you see it as something beyond your own influences?

WW: Tom Waits said, “whatever you absorb, you eventually secrete.” I just try to secrete the good stuff I absorb. I do like to think I am contributing to the Great Tapestry.

A: You seem to have a very cinematic/impressionistic narrative sensibility when it comes to writing songs. Are there any particular songwriters you draw inspiration from or who inform your work?

WW: Tons of songwriters inform my work, but I make a conscious effort to not imitate anyone. Before I go in to make a record, I’m usually listening to a lot of techno, black metal and jazz, so as not to accidentally plagiarize, you know, Vic Chesnutt or Richard Buckner, because that would be easy to do. I’m inspired as much by authors as I am by songwriters – these days, perhaps more so.

A: You just got done tracking your second album here in Birmingham with the Briarwood Virgins at Ol' Elegante Studios. How did you first get involved with the Birmingham music scene?

WW: My wife is from Samson, Alabama, and spent many years living in Birmingham. She promoted shows at the Bottletree, so she was really familiar with the music scene and its participants. We actually met at the Bottletree, while I was on tour with Akron/Family.Through her, I met all the guys who would eventually make up the Briarwood Virgins. Duquette proposed a split 7" on which his band, Gum Creek Killers, would back me up on the Wooden Wand side and I would sing on the Gum Creek Killers side. It went so well I decided to make a whole album there at Ol' Elegante.

A: The idea of a "Briarwood virgin" is long-running in-joke for Birmingham natives. Were you aware of the connotation? How did you all decide on the name of the band and the album?

WW: Again, my wife. I thought it was a hilarious name for a band. Despite the next record having most of the same personnel, I think we’ll be retiring the name, though – future records will be back to being filed under just ‘Wooden Wand.’ People get confused.

A: It seems like you really hit it off with everyone involved and developed a real rapport with each other both musically and personally. In fact, you mentioned in a recent interview that the Briarwood Virgins were "the band you had been looking for since you first started making records." What was your experience like making those albums?

WW: Bliss. This is the perfect band for me. Making this last record was so much fun that a few of us got sorta depressed for a week or so after it was over. Ol' Elegante, especially after making this second record, feels like home. We just seemed to all catch this particular sort of wave, where we knew something special was happening. The experience was totally positive. Everyone contributed a lot. Special shout out to Les Nuby, who not only co-produced and engineered, but also played parts when no one else would or could. I'd say he was the secret weapon, but that ignores all the other secret weapons in this band. I'm the weak link, really. I just hope people can connect with this next album, because it’s by far the best thing I’ve done, and I couldn’t have done it without Brad, David, Jody, Les and Janet. “If you buy just ONE Wooden Wand album…”

 A: Were there any common touchstones you all leaned on in formulating your approach to the songs? Seems like there is a heavy Neil Young vibe on some of the tracks….

WW: Neil is always present, but it’s a tricky thing because a lot of bands try to do the “Crazy Horse” thing “and fail miserably. My goal is to not have a “thing.” Neil inspires me as much for his attitude as for his music. When people say a record sounds like Neil Young, they’re very rarely talking about Trans, or Old Ways, or Everybody’s Rockin', you know? His music is obviously very important to me, but I make a conscious effort to follow his example and his integrity, rather than attempt to mimic the greatness of a mere sampling of his best work.

A: The Briarwood album was made possible by a Kickstarter campaign you started online. What made you want to use Kickstarter as a vehicle for funding the record? Was it out of necessity or just another means of production?

WW: I got tired of depending on labels - who really don’t have the money they used to, at least not for bands that sell under 5,000 copies, like Wooden Wand – and felt like I could bypass the middle man and sell directly to fans. The experience was encouraging, and I may do it again someday, but not for a while. Like any business model, it has its own unique set of problems.

A: Fire Records will be re-releasing Briarwood in April accompanied by your demos for the album. How did that come about so soon after the initial pressing?

WW: Because we felt, frankly, that the record was a victim of a ‘perfect storm’ sort of scenario – it was released late in the year after most ‘top ten of 2011’ lists were already being printed, Kickstarter siphoned off a lot of the diehards and also made the “official release date” sorta moot, and the press campaign was an unmitigated catastrophe. Fire Records, to their eternal credit, were so disappointed by the response (or lack thereof) that they decided to re-release the album, which, to me, is a testament to their belief on the project. It's an album worth hearing.

A: How did the sessions go for the new record? Do you see it as a departure from the last album or just building on the foundation you all created for the first?

WW: I can’t discuss it too much, as the actual release date is pretty far off, but it is, by some distance, a defining record for me. It doesn’t have much in common with Briarwood at all – it is the Sunday morning wake-and-bake record to Briarwood’s Saturday night revelry. But it’s also so much more than that. I can’t wait for you to hear it.

A: So you're happy with the results so far?

WW: If people don’t see in this record what we see, it may very well be the last Wooden Wand record. I’ll be plenty happy to make this record my legacy. I’m just glad I got to make it before I died in some tragic accident or something. All of the previous albums feel like a rehearsal for this one.

A: Any thoughts about the Birmingham music scene and some of the great musicians/music coming from here?

WW: I love the Birmingham scene, and the bands here - Delicate Cutters, Through The Sparks, 13ghosts, etc - are all doing really cool stuff. Before I really spent any time there, I was already familiar with the Bottletree, as it was always a stop on tour I looked forward to. Love, love, love the Bottletree - who doesn't? Assholes, I guess. Anyway, I just wish there was more national attention paid to what's going on there. Hopefully soon!

A: Finally, you're getting ready to head out on the road with Janet Simpson as a pared down touring unit where you'll be making stops throughout the Southeast as well as Austin, TX for an appearance at South By Southwest. Is it just going to be the two of you? What can fans expect from you all in terms of the live show?

WW: Just a duo, yes. With Janet, the music improves by about 200%, so I’d encourage everyone to come out. We’ll be playing a lot of new stuff, and stuff from Briarwood, and hopefully even a Delicate Cutters tune if I can convince Janet to let me play on one. I’m lucky to have her along. Also, our touring partner this time, Jeff Lewis, is an old friend, and he’s also a ton of fun to watch live. Should be a good time.


(Wooden Wand is on tour NOW with Birmingham's Janet Simpson and will be appearing at Eclipse Coffee & Books in Montevallo on Friday, March 9 at 8 pm.)

Spontaneous Combustication
w/ Medeski, Martin & Wood 

(***Editor's Note: This is the long version of an interview I did with John Medeski that was supposed to be published in WELD- in edited form- for their upcoming show at the Alys Stephens Center on Feb. 10. Due to an unfortunate series of circumstances it did not run. Thus, I'm putting out- in its entirety- here. Hope you enjoy it....)

        When it comes to jazz fusion, there are few groups in contemporary music who can match the wide open eclecticism and technical prowess of Medeski, Martin & Wood. As one of the leading lights of New York's experimental music scene, for the past twenty years, the trio has been out on the road pushing the limits of audio exploration with their unique blend of avant-garde aesthetics, off-beat collaborations, and dance-friendly grooves. Equally adept at churning out abstract soundscapes, sublime melodies, and streamlined funk- often in the same breath- they have become the standard bearers for a new type of audacity in modern composition. At once populist and esoteric in their approach to their craft, the three members of Medeski, Martin & Wood have managed to win the unwavering support of both new music geeks and jam band aficionados alike, in what has been a remarkable rise from underground night clubs to mainstream music festivals. As master improvisers with thirsty ears and a seemingly infinite musical palette, there's a little bit of something for everyone in their singular brand of Third Stream artistry.  
Having recently put out a year-long series of monthly digital singles in honor of their twentieth anniversary, the group is set to take a much needed break from touring and recording in 2012 to give each other a chance to catch their breath and work on various projects outside of the band. Returning to Birmingham for the first time in several years to play a special acoustic show at the Alys Stephens Center on February 10, Weld caught up with keyboardist John Medeski to ask him about the band's unlikely career, the art of improvisation, the influence of Sun Ra, and why he doesn't like being labeled a "jam band." This is what he said....



Audiovore: You all just celebrated your 20th anniversary together as a group this past year. How has your original vision for the band stacked up against everything you've accomplished over the past two decades? Did you think you'd be able to take your music this far when you first started out?

Medeski: You know, we had a feeling….we knew there was something there. We didn't really have a plan you know. It was always about the music. I would say beyond anything I ever dreamed of. It's so different we didn't know what to imagine. We thought that what we had going had a little bit of value. There was a little chemistry there the very first time we played, so we just took that and when we first went out on the road we said, "Look, we need like forty or fifty people to show up a night and we could be playing this type of music." We couldn't play six nights a week in New York. It was once a month or something like that. So we just figured, "Hey, you want to go out, we'll see if anybody likes it and we'll hit some clubs and see if anybody relates to it." We felt like anybody could relate to it, but we didn't really know. We felt it more than we knew it. The whole thing's kind of been like a dream. Twenty years….it's hard to believe actually.

A: What's been the biggest surprise as you've grown up together as working musicians?

M: Well…that we still love playing together and it still feels fresh. I mean, I've seen so many bands that have been together for a long time and they don't talk to each other, they don't like each other…they ride in separate buses. And they get up and they play the gig and they play the same songs they did forty years ago- thirty years ago, twenty years ago- and, I don't know, for us it still feels great to play together and to hang out together. That's really the biggest surprise. That and- like with the live show- we keep growing.

A: So the spark is still there?

M: I guess so. It's hard to believe.

A: You all are very much rooted in the Downtown experimental music scene in New York City, yet many people outside of jazz/new music circles associate you with jam bands due to your penchant for improvisation, constant touring, and your appearances at festivals like Bonnaroo. Is the "jam band" tag something you all are comfortable with or do you find that label to be a bit limiting in its appeal?

M: I would say it's totally limiting. I mean, it's a weird term. You know, it's been around a long time- that quote/unquote "scene," or term for that scene- and there's nothing really we can do about it. When it was first happening we really were open. We were trying to see if there was something else, some other way to define it, but it didn't happen. I mean, the whole idea of "jamming" in the traditional sense- in the jazz sense of like a jam session- it's great, but it sort of implies a lack of thought to me. We're very careful. We consider what we do spontaneous composition. The truth is, we've never been calculated, like I was saying. You can't pick your audience. And we didn't try to. We just played our music and whoever liked it would come. And to me, that scene sort of attracted itself to us, and that's partly because the music has some groove to it and there's some improvisation. That scene wasn't around when we first started. It didn't exist. Phish was out on the road, but that term came around after we were out there. You know, that's what the audience sort of came up with. Nobody was paying attention to the music…the critics, the record labels…nothing. The scene just really built itself on live music. It's about live music. I mean, there's so many different bands out there playing live. That part of it is great. But to be honest, at a certain point a lot of the noodly guitar- for me- is boring [laughs]. But that's me [laughs again]. I definitely come from more of a jazz background. I listened to funk and r&b, but I didn't really check that stuff out. But, you know, all music is good really.

A: There's only two kinds right? Good music and bad music….

M: Yeah, but even then it's just a matter of opinion [laughs].

A: Speaking of improvisation, live you all seem to thrive off the need to push each other- and the energy of the music- in different directions to see what happens and have created a vast common language within which to speak to one another. What is it about the live context that seems to bring out the best in you all as performers?

M: You know, recording has only been around for a short period of time in the scope of human history, and music is about live communication. When we first started recording we didn't know why we wanted to record, because, what are you trying to capture? So, for us, it's what music is really about. It's the truest way to touch somebody. It's like a direct transference of energy. It's not filtered through all the intellect of recording. And you're also not separated out in the room and not getting any of the energy of the individuals. You're receiving the notes and the music. So, it's like half the experience [of playing live].

A: It's the crucible of the moment….

M: Yeah. For us that's what it's all about. Being in the moment for that moment. It's what we thrive on. It's what improvisation is. So really, if you're listening to a record of improvisation, it's not really about the moment you're listening to it, it's about the moment you played it [laughs]. Don't get me wrong, I listen to it all the time and love it and I've learned a lot and still do. It's still interesting. I love recording music and there's a whole art to making a record and creating this work, but what's fascinating to me is having somebody's idea and realizing it with a group of people. It's like, "What is that? What is that?" If you add more individuals things are gonna change. Things are gonna change because of the addition of the people and their energy...and their everything. And, I always feel like the collective thing is better than what one guy can come up with because you're entering all these other elements and your entering the crucible of reality and all these other things and…it's life…it's including life in the art. Music has it's power. The vibration is powerful and the vibration coming from the instrument itself is very different from the vibration coming through your headphones or the speakers in your car stereo. It's a different experience. It can be inspiring or it can be fun, but getting the benefit of each sound is good. It's about a feeling.


A: You've mentioned that you often go into something akin to a trance when performing live. How important is the subconscious to you in terms of improvisation?

M: None of it's really important. What's important is to be beyond all of it: conscious, subconscious, ego…everything. To just let the music come out and do whatever it needs whenever it needs to, and just allowing your ear and your heart to take you where things need to go, what needs to happen. You know, I think ultimately all that stuff is coming out: subconscious- even conscious thoughts- whatever you take in intuitively and embed in yourself will come out. It's really hard- or impossible- to nail down. You know, some of the nicest people in the world….you don't hear much from their music. And some people who are mean, awful people can play some of the most beautiful, heartwrenching music. I mean, Miles Davis is a perfect example. He was not a nice person, but he could play like nobody else. It's so undefinable.

A: Your last three albums [the Radiolarians series] were born out of compositions and improvisations developed live while out on tour. Yet, this past year you took a very different approach and released a series of monthly digital singles as part of your 20 year anniversary? What made you decide to take a more focused approach this time around?

M: It's just a different kind of focus. Radiolarians was very focused in that we wrote the music, then we toured on it, then we recorded it. You know, there's so many different ways to create, so we just sort of set the limits and decided on the parameters of how we were going to create those records. And what it was about was, a lot of times you go out on the road, you make a record, and then you tour on it. So you do all this work in the studio, and then you get on the road and things change….sometimes it gets better, sometimes not. So what we did with Radiolarians was include the live performance in the process of the creation of the music. We wrote the music, then we played it live on tour, and then we recorded it after we had it mutated through the live performance. Then, with the twenty singles, we thought it might be fun to see what the digital realm might do for us. I guess the idea was a different way of focusing: forcing us to select twenty tunes in the course of a year. There's so many different ways to compose and to approach things in a different form. The structure we set up was, "Hey, we're gonna do this many tunes, and they're sorta going to be released as A and B-sides, and it's not about making a decent record, it's about letting songs be the whole thing." Also, it was something we had never done before. We had an occasional tune here and there, but we always made records. When we were creating Combustication, or The Dropper, or Shackman there was an overall vibe and feel and concept to the record. And, you know, Radiolarians had it's own concept and focus. Each record has a focus. This time we decided we weren't going to worry about the focus and just focus on each tune and let them be what they are for what they are, not how they fit within a collective whole. Like a single. I think we've done a few single tunes over the years, but not that many in a run.

A: Digital 45's?

M: Yeah, sort of. 78's….[laughs].

A: You've spoken before about the ever-expanding musical vocabulary you all like to explore as a group, collaborating with djs, spoken word artists, and musicians from across the spectrum of the sonic arts. What is it about staking out new territory that you find so appealing? Do you still see new horizons for you all as a group?

M: Yeah, as long as we keep playing together. It's in our nature- our individual nature- to grow like that and keep growing. We want to grow. We want to get better and learn more.  It's what we do and what we've always done. It's what we do as individuals. We all individually do things- we all have other groups- and that all comes into the band as well. So, having that richer, more varied life allows you to change and grow. It's all about playing with different people.

A: You began your career as a classically trained musician. Who were some of your earliest influences? Are there any artists you would point to as having laid the groundwork for your own aesthetic? In jazz or otherwise…

M: Not really, you know. It's like, what I appreciate at this point is that it would be unfair to single anything out because I would be leaving something else out. Also, it's just the same stuff we've all heard. Everything's available. There's no mystery in music out there. Sure, there's people out there that you know that I don't know, and bands that I love that maybe you haven't had time to check out yet. But everything's out there for us. We've heard a lot of the same things, so you know, I can't really say there's this one artist in particular, because I love so many. There's so many incredible musicians out there still.

A: You almost got to play in a touring band with Jaco Pastorius as a teenager. How did that come about? Why didn't you get to tour with him?

M: I was 15 or 16, and I was playing with him. I was in a band with some friends in Ft. Lauderdale and they were friends or students of Jaco, and he used to come play with us. And…he liked me. Sometimes he'd get me to play Beethoven for him before the gig and then he'd play piano for me with all these amazing harmonies of his. He was an incredible piano player…incredible harmonies…a master. And we played together a bunch of times in different settings. Did everything from straight ahead jazz to the more electric trio kind of things we were doing, and he'd sit in and play and take over the rest of the night. And we'd play his tunes…other stuff. I even sat in on a country recording with him one time. He was in the studio recording and I was in the studio in another room- I think I was actually making my classical demo for auditions for colleges- so I went on over and played on that for a second. And he liked me and was really, really encouraging and was just a wonderfully empowered musical spirit, and he asked me to go out on the road with him in Japan, but my mom wouldn't go for it. At the time I wasn't too happy about it, but I think it worked out all right.

A: Are you a fan of Sun Ra? I know you all have worked with members of the Arkestra in the past.

M: Yeah. He'd be in the top echelon- to answer your other question- of influences. I love Sun Ra as much as anybody. I mean, Sun Ra was an early explorer of sound. And I like to explore sound. And there's certain keyboards that he played that I wanted to check out because he played them. And I don't really pick instruments according to what people play, I do it according to what it sounds like when I play it and what I relate to and what I'm hearing. But Sun Ra is such an inspiration in every way: the instruments he chose, the voices, the melodies he created, the harmonies. Everything about him: his soloing, the image he created for himself, the spiritual side- or whatever you want to call it- that he was into. All that. It's a never-ending inspiration. His whole life is an inspiration. And he's from Birmingham, you know, so whenever I come to Birmingham I can't help but think about that. You feel that energy and that spirit…that Sun Ra spirit.

A: He got dropped off here…

M: Yeah, apparently so.

A: Do you have any younger players you pay attention to? Anyone you think is pushing the envelope in new and exciting ways?

M: That's a hard one to say. Yeah, I hear things out there. There's so much great music out there…younger players. There's this band the Crash Kings that I really like. They're kind of poppy, keyboard based, no guitar [laughs] kind of stuff. I really like those guys a lot. I mean, there's a lot of great musicians out there: Jason Moran, Craig Taborn…guys from more of the jazz world. Rudresh Mahanthappa is a great sax player. The thing is, especially in jazz, there's sort of this new, really intelligent, soulful music out there. It's a pretty amazing era right now I think. More in the jazz world than the pop world. Pop music is in a lull I would say [laughs]. It's in a post-indie rock world waiting for something to happen. Plus the industry is so screwed up….

A: You all will be giving a rare acoustic performance when you play here in town at the Alys Stephens Center. Are there any particular dynamics you enjoy about the acoustic setting that are missing from an electric show? You all started out as a largely acoustic trio….

M: Well, you know, piano is my first instrument. The piano itself is an orchestra. It's an incredible instrument. It has unlimited colors and within its range it has a lot it can do. And it forces a certain kind of listening. It just creates a different atmosphere. It forces you to go a little deeper…both the audience and us. Which we like. It's about music. It's really about an experience and a journey. We never set out to be a dance band, you know? We play music. We love so many dance-influenced musics it's definitely part of our fabric, but it's never been like, "You have to dance to our music." That's never been a rule. Our rule has been to do whatever you want and whatever you feel. The most important thing is to come along for the ride and be open minded….that's the only thing we really care about. If you're open minded, we're going to get into things and we're all going to go there together. And the more we stay together, the more we can really go someplace special, rather than that old comfortable place you recognize from sitting on your couch with the headphones on. That's not what we're about. It's about here and now.

A: You all are known as a very groove-oriented band. Are you a believer in the old adage "jazz is the teacher/funk is the preacher"?

M: I think it's great. James "Blood" [Ulmer] was right on the way I see it. It's true. But, you know, jazz is also a preacher. It has some preaching to offer. It's a great line. There's so much to be said. There's so much truth to it. Jazz is an incredible teacher. It's a super advanced language. It's roots are the results of the melting pot of America. It's a beautiful thing and it's opened up all over the world. There's all kinds of versions of it. People get inspired by it and influenced by it. That's why I'm baffled by all these people claiming "what" jazz is today. But what are you gonna do? I wouldn't necessarily call MMW jazz. I mean, for a long time I haven't even cared what it means. I just know I love certain music. It's all relative to your perspective. It's just names….words.

A: What can fans expect from you all in 2012? Any big plans? Any end of the world party tunes in store for the coming year?

M: I don't know. We're touring a little less this coming year. We're each doing other things- more projects- but we're not going to be out much this year. So, if you see us out there you better go, 'cause we're not going to be doing as many festivals and stuff as we've done in the past. We'll be out together in the fall, so, we'll figure out something to celebrate the end of the world.